The Entrepreneur Podcast
The Entrepreneur Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

14. Looking for 'more' with Alan Gertner of Tokyo Smoke

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Why is it that people in seemingly great places — good careers or relationships, leave to pursue ‘more’?

In 2015, Alan Gertner was working his dream job at Google. Growing up, Alan was the type of kid who preferred computer camp to sports camp, and at only 30 years old was an executive at Google, living in Singapore. He’d dedicated his 20’s to winning at work and realized he wanted the next chapter to be different – so he left.

He went on to start a company in the cannabis industry, Tokyo Smoke, which he eventually sold to Canopy Growth Corporation for a reported $250M. But his systematic process to do the self-work required to figure out what to do next was key to his success.

Alan shares that process, and more on the first episode of our new series Hustle & Grit.

You're listening to the Ivy Entrepreneur podcastfrom the Pierre L Morris at Institute for Entrepreneurship at the Ivy Business School.In this series I be entrepreneur and Ivy Faculty member Eric Johnson will anchor thesession. Alan, thanks so much for coming in. Good to you getto hang out with you again. Yeah, thanks for having me. Always goodto have you at the school. I wanted to spend a little oftime. So this is part of our hustle and great series and I wantedto spend a lot of time today on motivation. You've got such an interestingand winding story, but I wanted to actually start with there's an article inthe try believes, the Toronto star from two thousand and seventeen and you werequoted a whole bunch and the title of the article was the problem with reachingyour career goal. Can you paint us a picture for where were you atwhen you were, call it twenty five or thirty years old? Pick aninteresting time in your life. Where were you at? Yeah, I can. I can reflect and and relate to being thirty very close. I'm thirtyfive now and I remember being thirty. I was living in Singapore. I'dbeen working for Google for we just made just over a handful of years.Google was, in a lot of ways, my dream job. I went tocomputer camp as a kid and again, I'm thirty five. So going toget Peter Camp as a kid at that time was not cool right.This was this was a snaria that I remember my parents actively trying to limitthe amount of time I went to computer APP there like okay, we'll tradeyou like two weeks a computer camp for four weeks of baseball camp. Iloved I love this stuff and I got this job at Google. Googlecom jobsflat for a job. Got This job. At the time I moved from NewYork to San Francisco. Is in San Francisco a couple years moved toSingapore. Then I was in Singapore and at the time I was running abusiness unit for Google and this was all I could ever asked for. Ihad this job with prestige. I made more money than I ever really imaginedI would make. I had a team, got to work in multiple officers,I got to be in this far fun place, all these really amazingthings and I remember. I remember sitting down with my my boss, mymentor at the time and talking to him about what was next and thinking alot about really my next promotion because, least for me, a lot ofwhat I was always motivated by, why I was getting up in the bedand I got to bed every morning, was to get promoted. I getpromoted, make more money, La they're into repeat star. Was Having thisconversation with my mentor and talking about the next promotion and, like, Iremember very vividly, explaining him why I wanted to get promoted. Just askme like why, why do you care so much? When we really gotdown to it, I said that I wanted to get promoted really like tobeat other people to that goal line and if I didn't beat the other peoplethat Gore line, it was irrelevant to...

...me. And when we reflect itback on how I was feeling in my past promotions, what I realized wasreally every time that I got to that goal line I felt nothing. Iwas so excited, so passionate, so focused on getting that place, andthen all of a sudden absence, all of a sudden I was in limboagain and I had to create this new goal, this new external focus,is new external simulited drive towards and ultimately, at thirty, I was tired ofdoing it. What I realized was this hamster wheel I was on wasn'tgetting me anywhere at all. I was just going to do the same thingover and over again forever. And so started me on this journey to tryto figure out what truly made my life meaningful. Because if I had focusedmy entire s on trying to win at work, could I focus my son trying to win a life? And what would that mean? So II remember everything about sitting down and having that chat and it set me onthe journey that I'm still working on today. And did your boss of the timedid he encourage you to explore that? was He thinking, shoot, Ican't lose this guy, or was he thinking, Oh, it's sofunny? So I, like I remember also very distinctly talking to my boss, my boss is boss, into colleagues, about my decision to quit. WhenI decided I was going to quit, so I was working at Google.I went into a product in Ghana, when I came back to Singapore andI quit my job. And when I talked to a boss, myboss as boss, I'll explain this even a better way. There was basicallya direct relationship between how supportive you were and how old you were. Sothe older the person was, the more supportive they were of me going onthis journey. They were immediately understanded. Oh, you want to try tofigure out what would make your life me you want to try to take abreak and take a step back and look at all this great like, we'rehappy to offer you more money, we're happy to give you a different title, but if that's what you want to do, go do that. Butwhen I would talk to my peers or people who were sort of fresher intoGoogle, or talk to people who I didn't work with but or maybe myfriends in life, all of them had at a harder time understand it becausewe had all had this same focus, we'd all had the same perspective,we'd all had these goggles on that made up made us think of life ina certain way. So why would you ever leave this job, with thismoney, in this place? Why would you do that? So it's sofunny that I think back to how universal it was that those who I lookedup to, those who are I respected, those who were older and they reallyand truly we're all okay and supportive of this journey that I was goingto go on. And do you find that? was everybody else in yourpure group also in a similar place? or where there were, there's somepeople that had sort of got to this place and figured this out earlier,or is everybody just sort of heads down?...

I want to win at work.For the all, there were lots. When he's he's figured this out wayquicker than I did. I don't know if they went through the samejourney. It might have just been a nate for them. It might havebeen a discovery they made. Are there. But even now I can reflect onmy friends who maybe went and became ski bumps right and live in aski town and work in a ski resort, and they seem, they've always seemed, happier, like they have lives that are more meaningful than some ofmy contemporaries who've been grinding a way of work. Sometimes I would tell myself, and I think lots of us do this, but I would tell myselfthere was only one true path, it's only one story here that makes sense, and that story is the story I believe my whole life, good work, work, hard journey on when I started to look around. You know, it is clear that there was so much more going on, but itwas hard to look around for a lot of that time, right, becauseI'm basically climbing this mountain, and so it's stage one. When you lookaround, you do you don't really see anything. It's not to you getto the top that you can really look around and and see that there areother people on higher peaks, there are other people who taken totally different journeys. There other people just where you are and they didn't take the same rootat all. So it took me a long time to figure out that therewere other paths and that maybe the mountain I was climbing was wrong, wrongmountain in the first place. All right. So that led you to a tripto Ghana, I believe. Right. So I went to Ghana. Itwas actually the last project I did, a Google okay, so I waslucky to get to go on to content there and we worked on aproject to deploy Internet infrastructure and Ghana. Google and it's infinite wisdom, lookedat the Canadian Margaret Thought Hey, this, you know, real opportunity for usto do something here, and one thing we can do is deploy fibercables. So we went around Ghana and help people understand how they could usegoogle and youtube and all of these things to make their lives better, becausenow they were going to have this high speed Internet. And while I waswas there, you know, I had a couple moments that really pushed meover the edge in my decision making to leave Google, and one of themwas we're on the way of this Voodoo ceremony. So it was me anda couple other google employees, googlers who were in Ghana, and we talkedabout things we could do while we're there, and really only two of us havemaybe the twenty googles over there had any interest in this voody ceremony.So we found a guide, gotten this car, drove out to the Bushand the booty ceremonyesself was cool right, a whole different story for a wholeanother time. But the thing that was impactful, that is stuck with meis talking to the guide about my life, saying that I was feeling an unmooredfrom my goals, that I was going to quit Google. Let guysort of couldn't believe this, right, but I asked him what motivated himin life. Why does he get up and be the guy every day andwhy does he get up and do what he does? He told me thatfor him, his focus has always been...

...about either doing something that he lovesor doing something for the people that he loves. This, I did,really stuck with me. Work on something that you love or work on somebodyto support the people that you love. And it's not necessarily the principles thateveryone should orient their life around or that I should orient around, but itwas. It was the summation of a journey that was so different than mine. That's not how I'd focused my life at all. All right, Iwas going to win at work. What do I care about the other stuff? So to hear someone's such someone's thoughtful, concise statement about how they live theirlife, it really helped drive me to try to figure out this newpath. So you're starting to piece these things together. There was something,some sort of discomfort that you were feeling. A Google, you met this guideand you're starting to say here's a principle or an idea that gravitates.Were you capturing these anywhere, or was it just like I'm going to parkthis thought, but to park this idea or in your mind where you like, Oh, this is a foundational thing that is going to be the basisof something. I don't know what yet. How are you organizing that Info?Yeah, I've always been a very fastidious notetaker. I try my absolutebest, whether enabled by technology or not, to write down everything in anything thatis interesting to me. Hey, and so I've always, always donethat and as I've gotten old I've gotten also a lot better at journal andtrying to do more free writing, because I think it's a nice opportunity toreflect. So this time I was really just writing stuff, writing stuff down, but I was still unsure of where I was going to go. Youknow, I was the youngest person in my my job's back at Google andthe in the world right. So He's part of me was still dragging meto this place of okay, well, I should just I should really justkeep on this journey. What happened was I got back to Singapore, Idecided I would quit and then, as I was thinking about this new journey, I would go on and keep in mind I quit with no plan,and this never really made sense to me that I would look forward to thisidea of quitting and then going in line on a beach, absence of stimuli, the absence of things to do. That didn't feel like the path tothe dream, of the vision that I had, because this dreaming, thisvision, was to figure out what would make my life more meaningful. Andso for me, after I quit, I started to do a lot ofreading and started to try to assemble some tools that would help me figure thisout, what would make my life more meaningful. And this was after youquit, this is after I quit. So I quit without this plan.I quit thinking that I'll figure this out. One thing I've always told myself,this is for better for worse, is that I'll figure it out.So I quit my about I'll figure it out. I packed up my batlike packing up my bags and Singapore, because you can't stay in Singapore.I'm not from Singapore, so quitting is also the expery of my visa.Pack it on my bags in Singapore and decided on this journey that is aheadof me. And I wanted some structure, I wanted some rubric, I wantedsome way to be able to evaluate...

...my life going forward, because Iwouldn't have the same consistent inputs like I had before, but I needed someway to stort through this information, and so, with someone who went toIvy, who was a manage for consultants, who worked attack comboddy for too long, I thought, I'm sure spread you will help myself this problem.So I built this big spreadsheet and this spreadsheet was my way to reflect onmy happiness and the meaning of my life, and so I tried to track everythingthat happened to me every day. I'd get up in the morning andhave some tea and do some meditation and I reflect on my past day.How happy was I? How meaningful was my day, and I'd score myselfat a ten. Who Do I talk to? What do I talk tothem about? What was the weather like? What do they do? Try towrite all these things down and I went out and lived this life thatI hadn't otherwise got to live because I've been working. So I got thechance to go and be a backcountry ski tour Guy in Japan. I'd loveskins one of those moments where I feel and flow or I feel like mylife has meaning. I got to ski my friends and I we bought atwenty year old Tiota and we drove from London to Mongolia. I got togo do all this stuff and all this time I'm feeling this of you everymorning, filling it out, and after not that long I started to discovera pattern and it taught me two principles that were the guiding light of thenext phase of my life. These two things, I don't think they're necessarilyso revelatory, but they were important for me to see in the mirror,to see that they were true for me. One of those things was that mylife is more filling. I am happier if I am part of orbuilding a community and, as I said, this is, I think, insome ways a pretty obvious thing. There's lots of studies around human happinessthat say one of the most fundamental inputs to your happiness is time with yourfriends, time with your family, time with loved ones, social time.And I'd spend my life trying to win to work. So after I leftIvy, I lived in New York, I lived in San Francisco, Ilived in Singapore, I lived in Bangkok, he'll goo and I lived in gone. It's doesn't sound like necessarily the trapplions of a person who optimized forcommunity okay, so I know community is important to me. The second thingI learned was that my life is more fulfilling, more meaningful if I takeon a big challenge or, to steal from Google sparlence, if I takeon a moon shot, if I focus my energy on trying to imagine aworld that I want to live in as opposed to the world I live intoday. And this isn't necessarily five percent better, at ten percent better.There it's not about running a marathon faster than I typical would run a marathon. It's instead about some large scale hard thing, about pushing a boulder upa hill. If I focus my energy...

...on those kinds of things, mylife feels more fulfilling, that feels like I'm making a difference. And soI had these two anchors. Now I want to be part of our builda community and I want to take on a moon show, and those twocame out of all of the new experiences in a lot of the tracking thatyou did. Like, did you did you see somehow through the patterns ofyour data, that the days that you were happiness, had happiest, hadsomething to do with those things? Yes, like I remember when we were schemes. I'm working as a back unjury ski to our guide. We losea group. We're in the forest in the middle of nowhere in Japan andwe lose a group of people. Like not a good scenario, right,and if it's not otherwise abundantly clear, I don't speak Japanese, so youknow, other than alerting the nearby staff that we've lost a group, it'snot a lot I can do. Is the key interpreter. Like we canlose my group. To be fair, we lost a group. So weto find this group, myself and three four other guides, and we're doingour absolute best time trying to call them. Obviously we can't get ahold of them. There with a guide, so we know they're at least with somebody, and we end up, you know, said, of this big parimeter searchingthe forest. It's five PM, at six PM and Seven PM andski in Japan is cold. Right, your twenty thirty son is going down. Is Not a it's not a good, good look. Finally we get Aholdof the guy, like crackling phone call move this, you know,big printed map out. We're looking at the topography of the area. We'repretty sure where he's going to pop out of this gully. It turns outthey went into this gully that they obviously can't get out of. So acouple of US get in a car, we drive an hour and a halfaway, start climbing up this hill, hoping that they're going to come outof this gully and we find them. Maybe we find them at nine PM. So holly stressful, terrifying, uncomfortable situation. Include get everyone together,going out, have a nice dinn or maybe have some warm rum and anddrink some beers and reflect on the day and promise that will never lose themagain. But when I woke up the next day and I filled out mymy spreadsheet, what I noticed was, as silly as this might sound,my life felt very meaningful and that would like I got the chance to participatein something that was truly hard to put, you sipait, in something that wasabout community, about, you know, there's group of people that I hadspent weeks with that I cared about, to work with, guys. Wework together as a team to do all this stuff. So this's a, you know, small anecdote of the kind of story that led to ascore being higher one day, and so I would see these patterns, whenthese things would happen, and because I also took notes, right, itwas a journal and a spreads, shame, it was easy to start to seethese inputs that drove this feeling,...

...this desire for community, this desireto take on a big challenge. But had you not given yourself the timeto reflect, in the space to actually live those experiences? I mean you, maybe you did experience do things like that before, yeah, but hadn'tgiven yourself the space or time to reflect on it? So only by givingyourself the head space to do that where you actually having these these insights,of these realizations. I think that's true and I think it was important forme, given my makeup, to be able to see it in the mirror. As I said earlier, it's one thing for me to read a businessbook or a book about improving my life that tells me these two things.As I suspect there are a lots of other people that have come to thatinsight in many more. What was truly helpful for me was to be confrontedwith that and I was confronted with this idea that these are the thing Ihave an obvious choice here. I can I can take this information that I'vebeen writing down while I've been living my life and do something about it,or I can not write it's like an extreme version of, you know,these strength assessments that people will have. Or you can sit down. Youcan sit down in your office and say, like what brings me energy, whatdrains me energy? What am I good at, what am I notgood at? I do every year I look at my calendar and I lookat what were the things that I did, either meetings that I take, whattraveling did I do? And looking at them I can almost get anemotional response to like Oh, I remember when I got on that flight intothat like I need to do less of that this year. So, justto jump in really quick, one thing I've been working on since I leftmy job in this past February, in two thousand and nineteen, was thisidea of the full body. Yes, it's actually the full body. FYes, but I'm not going to swear so that the full body. Yesright. So this idea of full body has some reason I bring it up. Is I think it relates very well to that feeling you were expressing rightof like Oh, it's like, you know, I that was just anot good experience. So Nix. Sometimes for me in my life I've alwayslooked at things with my brain first. I want to look at these problemsand the scenarios that I'm in. I'm reflect back with my brain and that'sonly really one part of how our body thinks. We have neurons in ourgut and our heart is it plays a hugely meaningful role in the way thatwe think and the way that we react. So this idea of the full bodyyes is trying to reflect on and trying to tap into understanding how youget reacts to things. Now, your heart reacts to things because that feelinglike Oh, that's not a head feeling right. You posture even changes whenyou make that make that feeling. And so better understanding this, this thisfull body yes, has been very important in, you know, this nextjourney that I'm on to try to understand. Okay, well, what really givesme energy. I can have some base principles in place, but Iwant to understand what gives me energy and I think to go through that exercise. In my estimation for me at this point in my journey, it's notjust about my head. That's sort of...

...been the next part of my understandit of myself. It's actually about my heads, about my heart's about myguts, but my whole self and trying to figure out how to see thesignals from my God in my heart, because I feel like I've been trainedonly to see the signals from my head. So we haven't even talked about whereit led you. I mean you probably typically start some of these conversationswith previous roles and what you've most recently done, but I wanted to diginto how you made that transition because, I mean, you've done some phenomenalthings since leaving Google, but the to do that self work, to putyourself in a position to go without really knowing what the next thing was.I mean, frankly, a lot of the other guests that we have onthere's stories of how they mitigated the risk, how they started as a side hustle, one foot in one world, one foot in the other, orthey mitigated the risk by finding the right founding partner and D risking the team. Those are all people much smarter than I am. I suspect yours istotally totally different. So it's just re emphasizing to me, like Gosh,everybody's journey is just so totally different. For sure, though I will saypart of my understanding of my life is that everything I will ever go throughsomeone else has already gone through, when every feeling I'll have and every successI'll have and every failure, someone else has gone through that, and it'sbeen very important for me to try to find those people and try to readand learn from all the experiences that I've happened before me. So you endedup doing that self work. You did end up, I'm paraphrasing hugely becauseI know there's a massive part of the story here, but you ended upin the cannabis space. Did there's a massive story in between that a lotof other people have touched on in previous interviews. So Google Alan Girtner andyou'll see the full story. But the story of founding really you had thisbold you created this vision, and I love the way that you phrase itto me in the past was you envisioned a world where cannabis was going tobe it was going to grow. There was an opportunity or a moment inthe Canada seized, thank goodness, at least for now. You knew thatretail was going to be a part of it, you know that brand wasgoing to be a part of it, and so you position yourself nice andearly as a brand in the space. Then went on to found company calledTokyo smoke, which eventually you what did you? You sold it to canopy. So we sold it to canopy. The deal closed September two thousand andeighteen, so basically a year now. Okay, so sold it for healthysome being went on to become the chief retail officer of candapy Growth Corporation.Yeah, and then you left. Yeah, can you help me understand again,because this is like, okay, Alan has done his exploring, heknows what's important, he's done this self...

...work, and now it's like,surely now there's smooth sailing and everything, he'll just be the head of retailof the biggest cannabis company in this exploding industry. And yet a few monthsin you ended up leaving. So it it didn't surprise me, but helpme understand that thought process for why you left. Again Worth Anology, andI've been very lucky on this journey. We had a specific thesis of ourbusiness and you know, we worked very hard, but a lot of thingsfell our way and in September you can it be closed on buying our business, and can it be? As sort mentioned, is the largest cannabis companyin the world. He's a company that Canada birth. was just truly unbelievableupwards at some point of a thirty forty billion dollar company. We were incrediblylucky to become part of that business. I was became the chief retail officerand spent just over half a year working there. I think a big partof why I left was going through a similar process of reflecting that I wentthrough a couple years ago and a couple exercises that were very helpful for me, not so dissimilar from the wisdom I have got from a mentor in thepast or the spreadsheet that I had built to start to focus my direction.One of the things I remember doing in the past couple of months was sittingdown on the sprit scheet again and reflected on the past five years of mylife, how I feel today and how I want to feel in five years. And if you imagine that there are ten, two thousand and twelve ina number of parts that are drivers to the makeup of a person. Maybeit's your emotional energy or your spiritual energy, maybe it's your financial independence, yourliving environment. You score those things. Oh, scored these things out often. I clearly like scores out of ten and spreadsheets. So Iscored all of these things. I scored all these in five years ago beforeI went on this journey. I scored all these things today. This is, you know, in January this past year, maybe December last year,and I scored all these things five years now, and each time I'm writingto try to explain the difference. Right, by scoring from eight or why?Do I remember my financial independence feeling like an eight five years ago?What was funny but going through that exercise, was you add all this things up. So let's imagine it's ten things out of ten, so the scoresout of a hundred. My score went down relative to five years ago.What I couldn't I short, I couldn't even believe it. But part ofwhy that was a very useful exercise for me was in recognizing things that Iknew, which that maybe my financial independence went from an eight to a nine. It's not like I felt constrained in the first place. I've never wantedto buy a Ferrari. Any ways. These are not the drivers of myhappiness and my motivation, and there's so many studies out there that's say moneybeyond a certain level inhibit your happiness. anyways, and these other things maybemy emotional energy. My score had gone...

...way down because I had got backinto the routine of trying to want awhere, but I did. We built thisbusiness. I put my head down and I worked. My superpower,or or place, the super power that I'm most in touch with, isthat I have no Fummo I as a person. Put me in a darkroom, give me a product to work on, I'm there. And sothat three four years it disappeared because I worked and I was focused on ourvision. I was focused on our purpose. I believed in our purpose. Maybeunlike before, I had this purpose that I believed him and we weretruly doing this thing. I believed in this big challenge. There's about community. I believed in him. But when it came down to it, Istill ignored the seven other parts of my person, or eight other parts ortwenty other parts or whatever it was, and so my score was down andlooking at that I again had this moment. Well, I have a choice here. I can do something about this or I cannot, and unlike insome ways other parts of my life, I have no excuses now. I'veticked those boxes that I wanted to take. Now I put that money in mypocket, and so I have to really, in this scenario, Ihave to really, really look at myself in the mirror and say I'm notgoing to do anything about this just because I don't want to. That's justnot who I am. So I was another chance to go on a journeyof discovery, to try to figure out who, who I want to befor the rest of my life, or at least the next phase of mylife, and to do the work. So do you have you've been throughthis transition of a few times, huge transitions. Yeah, for you say, money wasn't a huge motivator. You'd never was like this level of enough. Then you get some enough and then anything more. You said it wentfrom an eight tow and nine. So didn't usually change anything. No,totally, and I don't think that's unique to me at all. Yeah,the you know, the one of one of the most amazing things about beingpart of Ivy and graduated in this places. You know, the world is youroyster in some ways, and I think very quickly you discover that allof these challenges that you thought were ahead of you terms of making your lifework, a lot of them you achieve pretty quickly. Yeah, so whatwork do you recommend twenty somethings do now, or what advice do you have?Because it is it is it, you know what, for the firstten years. You just need to put your head down and do the workfirst, or is it do the self work before you put your head downand do the work? Yeah, good question one. I generally don't haveany advice because I'd like I don't know right and, as I said earlier, and I truly believe it, I have worked are but I also gotvery, very lucky. What I can say is the self reflection, understandingyourself, being willing to look yourself in the mirror and acknowledge your flaws,acknowledge the parts about you that you don't like the part you do like.One way or another, you're stuck with...

...yourself, so you can layer onall these distractions, which I have been someone who has done. I've laredall of these goals on top of myself so I could focus on those goalsand not focus on me and in in my journey, those problems, thatsuffering, it's gotten harder to deal with, not easier, as I've gotten older, and so it's I'm incredibly grateful that I get to go through thisjourney now because there are lots of people who go through this journey when theyretire. I'm grateful I get to do this now, but I also willrecognize for myself, hopefully this is helpful for others. I don't think Ineeded to not have a job, to quit any of those things to gothrough this journey. There are lots of bite size ways to do reflection,to do the work to understand yourself, to work through that suffering that existswith all of us that I could have done along the way, as opposedto having to having to confront such an abrupt change. I'm lucky with thejourney I've been on, very happy to be in the place I am,but I recognized that I could have done those things that maybe would have mademy journey different. Yeah, I like that you recognize in the beginning there'ssome I don't forget who said it but never speak from advice, only speakfrom experience. So I agree to appreciate that your bring your own experience,that it's hard to deal of generic advice. From totally inclosing here, is thereanything? What do you focused on now? Do you know what's next? You've done some of this, you've done the self work. Do youknow what's next in the chapter? Is it still tbd? Yeah, I'vewant to recognize have lots of selfwork left to do. Okay, I thinkthat will be a journey I will be on my whole life in terms ofwhat's next for me. You know, I admit I don't. I don'tknow exactly yet. When I've started to narrow in on is a bit ofa better understanding of what my purpose is. I don't know if this will bethe purpose of my whole life, but my purpose today, and I'vestarted to refine this idea with time, that what the big part of whatdrives me and the difference I think I can make, given who I am. Said, I want to help bring new perspective or bring perspective to people'slives. That's a big part of why I was always excited about working atGoogle and this company that really could bring information, bring ideas to people,all up with the world to try to help democratize information in a way thatcould and did change the world. Part of why I love working in cannabiswas it's an incredibly safe and cheap doorway to a new perspective, not sayand it's perfectly safe, but relative. And as I've gotten older and Ihave more time, the things that give me energy understanding the world of meditationand sound baths and holotropic breathing and all of these things that fascinate me.A big part of why they give me energy and they fastate me is becauseI think they can help us understand ourselves in the world better and I thinkin some ways, more than any other...

...time, we live in a timewhere we are becoming more my opic and if I can try to bring perspectiveto people, to the world in some way, and I would be honoredfor that to be the purpose of the next phase of my life, that'sgreat. Well, I want to thank you for sitting down, spending thetime and if you're if you've got a filter now for the things that yousay. He guess to the fact that you made the trip in and aresitting here to have this conversation means that it's important to you and it's reallyimportant to me, so I appreciate you making the time. It's my pleasure. Thank you for me, you've been listening to the IVY Entrewinnur podcast.To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favoritepodcast player or a visit IV dot ca, a forward slash entrepreneurship.Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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